But apples to apples the 45 will always be a superior round. 20 ~ 30% accuracy, you have got to be kidding? The FBI and the armys surgeon General have done extensive data gathering. Pulling up graph for 223 one sees energy increasing almost linearly with barrel length up 18 where the graph ends. http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php FBI dropped 0.40 not because 9mm comes even close to it just affirmative action that's all it is. Less 'intent' to kill when LEO show up to take your statement and you're less likely to injure a family member 3 rooms away! A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. I really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points. When I really want to do some damage my S&W Govt. Now I am a range officer and shoot concealed carry and IDPA style matches regularly. As for the tool, I like the Springfield XD series. It can significantly increase damage in rifle bullet wounds. Whilst a Glock 19 does have more capacity than a Glock 30, they are almost identical in size, with only 5 rounds difference in standard magazine capacities. Get that one and the ammo that fits in it. A lot of this pissing contest about pistol calibers is very egocentriccentric. Standard pressure .38 Special only produces 264 foot-pounds of force (147-grain bullet at 900 feet per second . Have a great weekend, Colin. The marines and FBI went to the 9 so women could qualify because only 1 in 10 can with a 45. though they cant come out and say so. Practice both bullseye and tactical shooting skills. The law enforcement and military need that exact type of round and the 9mm is the perfect gun for those situations. I like that revolvers come in 9mm now (or more), and they sure seem more reliable and easy to use. Subscribe to Pew Pew Tactical's sales and deals email. Whereas the 00 might outright kill them. He paused, held up his pinkie, and said, "And if you hit a man right here," (raising said pinkie), "he's going down." Underwood ammo shows muzzle energy of 600-725 range for the 10mm and 1074-1125+ for 41. Two were head shots. The penetration myth is a myth. Not only are the Lehigh loads the most visually appealing due to their artful machining, but they ranked the highest in uniformity and had some of the lowest SD (standard deviation) of anything tested. Thats likely more distance than youll need for self-defense. Its truly sad that worthless police management who sit on their asses all day behind their desk in their A/C can implement near-sighted ideas like this, but it is what it is. Karl, youre embarrassing yourself with this vendetta. When it comes to the issue of 9mm vs .45, obviously bullet placement and bullet construction is key for stopping an assailant. Yes, that is the case, the .45 Thompson has ridiculous recoil. In certain situations, such as home defense in the middle of the night, the slightly higher capacity of the 9mm handgun may make it a preferred weapon. 1 or 2 rounds will do and move on as the 9mm is still emptying the clip on the first target. . I currently carry a .40 s&w. The subcompact 9mm, is an ideal carry gun but it's lighter weight makes recoil control difficult. But that's all a moot point. The velocity gains experienced were so unsurprising that I found that I was able to guess before looking at the chronograph by the time I was shooting the Glock 34. The cartridge is, without a doubt, the most . Now, I can see all kinds of comments coming from that one, from 'good idea' to 'that's a terrible idea'. If I did, I would either aviod the area or take a rifle. Not a Leo no need to shoot at distance or through material. If capacity isn't a factor 45 rules the roost. Or blind them. Which is why spec ops and the FBI still have 45 acp in their arsenals. If cost is no issue then .45 is probably best. If he hits you, its going to hurt. Every single bullet, whether its a full-metal jacket, hollow point, or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity. "Glock Perfection" is a MYTH. The recoil may be heavy for some but since I am a big guy, recoil has never been an issue for me. They are not 'cheap' as in inexpensive, either. Operational goals dictate which weapon to carry. So, its a good idea to review any state and local laws before buying a 9mm if youre set on having a 15+1 capacity gun. As far as the exact affects for self defense reasons? It depends on the body armor (type and quality) as well as the ammunition used. Youll do well to pick heavier bullet weights that convey a subsonic muzzle velocity. Try firing one off indoors in the dark with no ear protection. Let me start out by saying that the biggest mistake that most people make is taking a black-and-white stance on the .45 ACP and 9mm. When comparing a 115 grain 9mm round to a .45 ACP bullet that weighs twice as much, that difference is so substantial that the energy foot pounds can be nearly equal. Would I even ever use it? This will eliminate the threat on fewer rounds. Damn good question and I have wondered this myself. Later on in life I started to practice shooting again and worked with many different calibers. Correct, I have not shot many people. Adam, Eve (before they sinned), and the Lord Jesus Christ (Who never sinned.) Force is mass times acceleration squared. Youll see a muzzle velocity listed for nearly all ammo, sometimes even right on the box. You have seconds literally to get your gun on to the bear. Interesting discussion thanks for the insight and thoughts. Whichever caliber you shoot most accurately. What miffed me most about this test was that the gains across barrel lengths were essentially predictable. He is an active competition shooter with 14 medals from Camp Perry. Alexa analytics service - keep track on user informations. Currently i own no 45,s. No, it's just wrong to tell half-truths & mythologize recent historical events. Well use another sports analogy to make this point: think of a linebacker traveling at 6 mph, which is a typical jogging speed. Less recoil , good penetration, good follow up for stopping a robber etc. Saw a Gentleman post earlier that hes proficient with a .45 at 75 yards. By the time you've pulled the trigger with a .45, a 9mm can put 3 rounds in any anatomically advantageous area. It is up to you to determine the compatibility of any ammo with your particular pistols. Different strokes for different folks. Go home safe. Not an expert on older 45 sub guns, but I assume they are all straight blowback. No more mild steel targets to shoot at, it completely deformed I could not sell my 9 mm fast enough They say those things from a position of authority and impressionable young guys grow up and repeat them decades later. Put several makes and models in your hand. I also like the .38 special. But to a victim or an attacker, what happens when an intruder gets hit by birdshot may be a lot different to 00. Double tap from the leather in 1.5 seconds. Plan. Learn the 3 most popular shooting stances & more. We were issued S&W .38 cal wheel guns. STL like the conversation but on a different subject did anyone see the movie the card Counter I see one of the stars of the movie was wearing a Pew Pew tactical shirt. More penetration does not mean more deadly. I think That's exactly why the 9 is so popular. That is the EXCEPTION!! The Army, (of course), received them first. Only because many pokice depts as hiring more and more females. .45 all the way for me. I have no idea how this compares with the 9mm. He further explained that smaller shooters found the 45 to be more accurate on follow up shots due to the reduced muzzle movement. lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. Without the hydrostatic shock of a rifle round, wouldn't more organ and tissue damage be most important? A 9mm rounds ballistics depend upon which of the three common bullet weights its equipped with: Bear in mind that these numbers vary by manufacturer. I see you thanked Sig Sauer and Black Hills at the bottom, but no results for either in the spread sheet and none for Sig in the graph. So therefore if you had a smallish gun with 6+1, you'd be covered. Muzzle Energy: 369 lb/ft (230gr at 850FPS) 304 lb/ft (124gr at 1050FPS) . Shot placement will be your main concern with any bear. There has to be an overall advantage in close to medium range combat. By the time my dad made it to Korea he was already an experienced shooter. Do the math. I dont have a problem with the recoil of any of the calibers so thats not an issue for me. Your mileage will vary. choot em. Feel free to check out these sources: If you're a professional you should hit what your shooting at, or don't carry. I'm dead. like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market. Based on the data above, it appears that almost all loads tested got their greatest percentage increase in velocity up until about a 7" barrel length. For example, going from a 4" barrel to 7" (a 3 inch difference), every load got well over a 100 fps increase in velocity. The truth is both velocity and mass increase penetration just as both increase energy, but this is what we have to realize. What the USA needs is a firearms amnesty where everybody just gives their guns back to be melted. For the latter you need moderate velocity and a bullet that holds it's shape. I prefer to carry a 45acp because it rips arms off bodies and a 12 gauge in the house. Veteran SWAT freeze. We measured the velocity for all 40 rounds using a Competition Dynamics Prochrono chronograph placed 10 feet away from the muzzle. My own belief is that in most cases, people will over-carry for the sake of extra confidence. I went to work on the Police Dept. LolYour comments are the only ones I've read here filled with ignorance and apparent inexperience. The correct bullet for the job Either expanding or hard cast for penetration. For compact or subcompact pistols I tend to favor 9mm due to recoil considerations in the smaller, lighter guns, and the magazine capacity limitations. Maybe 45 has a bigger physical wound channel (Ill leave hydrostatic shock out of it, though the high speed footage of it in ballistics gel is compelling) and 9mm can go through a few extra boards so it evens out. And used on drugged up people both were effective. 1300+ FPS in my Glock 30. I thought this was going to get way uglier in the comments. The one that works best for you is the best choice. It's much quicker to spray left to right or right to left in front of you than get a gun out. If you want to go further or apply wind resistnece then use custom seetings with our ballistic calculator. back in 1971, couple years ago! I don't own a .45 (except a Pietta .45 Long Colt cowboy gun I target shoot in the mountains- I love it), but my son does have a couple of 1911's which he loves and says they are fairly easy to conceal carry. If you are special forces and you've resorted to using your pistol something has gone wrong. Velocity and barrel length data for 9x19mm Parabellum, also known as 9mm Luger and so on. From the days of the trusty Colt M1911 to modern .45 caliber handguns like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market. Thank you, however for the work on showcasing the loadsRead more . This is because larger bullets require more energy to be launched at a high speed. I'll be shooting faster when I'm more confident that I can hit the target (the closer the distance; the bigger the target; the easier to handle, more accurate the gun). Which he won't like. 250 plus opinions here and counting but for once I'd say they're not like A holeseveryone has one yet none stink. It holds lots of bullets. And if USA made the job in the Pacific, in Europe it was USSR, for WW2. Hot stuff. Everyone has their own confidence level and may believe what people tell them or what they read. I consider 45acp and 9mm in the same class. The wound tracks of a 9mm and a .45 ACP are almost the same. Seriously, people think that the 9mm rounds are the only that made progress in development. If a DOE, were there any significant interactions? We won the Battle of Britain independently of the US but how long the commonwealth would have held out could be debatable. It should be noted however, that the only round that was slightly outside the margin of error for incapacitation was the .357 SIG & Magnum which were the only rounds that not only beat shotguns, but they also tied centerfire rifles in their failure to incapacitate rates from the Buckeye Firearms study. Muzzle Velocity and Down-Range Velocity According to areport released in 2014 by the FBI, the 9mm was preferred in the field because of the following: Considering all of the advantages of the 9mm, why would anyone want to use the .45 ACP? Or shooting people in the back while they are running away. The knock down power of the .45 is undeniable, but again, the speed and capacity along with the availability and price of the 9 makes all the difference to me. Some are strict, some are not. This article has a ton of ballistic coefficient details but in general, the higher the number, the more aerodynamic it is. I also hold no delusions that the US would have defeated the axis powers by itself. Thing is, no shoe fits everyone, no caliber fits everyone, I carry a fn fnx 45 tactical every day so capacity is irrelevant I carry 32 rounds of 45 the weight doesn't bother me I can control the recoil well enough follow up shots are quick and on target with a 4-6 inch group speed shooting so I'm staying with my 45 I don't belive the 9mm is less of a bullet i just like the size diffence and the look of a big bore firearm is all i love shooting a 9mm and will definitely buy multiple but for carry 45 and if I need more penetration than get a 10mm which is op compared to 9mm and 45. We all know the answer. I freeze. Due to its bulky size I generally leave it wedged in between the front seats of my truck so I can access it fairly quickly, I never badly carry it because of the uncomfortable size and also because I live in Florida a lot of people still dont support concealed carry as much as Id like them to so I worry about it peaking out from under the bottom of my shirt and causing an issue with someone. Correct. Please take immediate action to change this link and ensure no other articles on Pew Pew Tactical contain links to that dishonest propaganda site. Like clipped on the front of your backpack harness or belt, in a manner where it can quickly be retrieved and used. I have 9mm carry weapons, but I'm thinking of doing the home defense thing the way you described! Well, this might rock your world but I recommend getting one of each assuming you have the money. ), 9mm (379 ft. For me, it's an SR1911, an old 4x4 Toyota with a stick, and a Pedulla my choices on all 3 are exactly the same i thought that was oddly coincidental since all 3 are not the most common choices. Now look at your natural sight picture. So if you double tap someone or use Mozambique you are in lots of troubles and you are looking for serious jali time for murder. Typically, a 9mm gun muzzle velocity ranges between 950 and 1150 fps depending on the bullet load and grain of the round. I love your Pro / Con's of each. One important fact is the combat readiness, safety and ease of use of the 1911. (Pew Pew Eric) Keep the awesome info coming, I love your emails and love your site! Even the FBI has phased out the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT & decision making! I do have a CZ 75 and a couple of 9mm Glocks that I carry occasionally. While modern ammo allows a 9mm to reliable penetrate sufficiently and expand to over .6, the 45 can now reliably penetrate sufficiently and expand to over 3/4 of an inch. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The domestic manufacture of war material was not remotely able to resupply the entire UK armed forces. Yea! My understanding is that most defensive shootings occur at 10 feet or less; probably because of the requirement to hold off until you are in fear of losing your life (home invasions not withstanding). https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/the-statistically-perfect-gunfight/ This page was last edited on 24 February 2023, at 12:37. My practice is Steel Challenge for about 14 years + USPSA and Zombie. Did you know Eve was not the first woman? I believe the opposite, actually: that all Americans should be required to own and be educated on guns . So, here is the STRAIGHT skinny on the 9x19mm v .45ACP debate. Wish you had more ammo brands like in the 45 acp test you did. Weve really missed you since 2016!). The bullet is/was a 147 grain hard Cast at 1100 FPS. I use Hornady critical defense in both caliber. 3. I've owned & fired both repeatable over the years. But in real life the first .45 causes a stun strong enough to slow the aggressor, the second may bring him to his knees. A .357 magnum round can have similar effects. The 9mm had a very distinct and predictable step in every load tested. If not, you may shot again but not before. .45 S&W Shield for concealed and home defense and Glock 17 for shtf all bases covered. Low capacity isn't your issue, so it seems that a powerful revolver would be ideal. Modern forensicss indicates a .38 Special and up is just as any other side arm aka marginal. Login Register. Was this test set up as a DOE (Design of Experiments) or an OFAT (One Factor at a Time) test? Capacity is not as huge a deal as you make it out to be, you tried to compare police shootings to civilian ones. 5.7mm American Eagle 40 Grain Full Metal Jacket Locally we are seeing a lot of police involved shootings using 9mm, and they empty the clip almost every time. As a Patrol Officer I have seen both in action in the real world, not the bull crap settings of a test range. What I am saying is 9mm is a better round in all the metrics that matter. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: Youll hear a lot of people say that the .45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is better because of its capacity. My 9mm is def better carrying size, 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby. It has a capacity of 15+1 and it's a 45 ACP. Josh thank you for this. Also, for you suppressor enthusiasts out there, the .45 ACP is an inherently subsonic bullet. I am pretty much in agreement with the author, GET BOTH! If either 5.56 x 45 or 7.62 x 51 are using hollow points or soft points the damage will be greater. .45 ACP and 10mm, both being slower heavier bullets than .357 SIG have greater penetration. Lend-lease conditions were allegedly exorbitant but the US manufacturing base was undeniably a godsend), plus some of the other margins you refer to were, frankly, too close to argue, so I wont even try. According to Newtons famous law of equal and opposite reactions, if the bullet is leaving the projectile at a higher speed (which means higher energy), the kick of your rifle against your shoulder or a pistol against your hand will be harder. Use what you can use the best. For a carry I use a compact 45. Thank you! Either way, the 9mm and the .45 ACP both pack a strong enough punch to neutralize any threat. ( Look it up) I'm a person who lives in a rural area, no longer military and not a cop. One of the great things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is VARIETY! Most situations are going to involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in the background. And no the target is not shooting back so the stress level is low. Let me know in the comments below! Installed by Google Analytics, _gid cookie stores information on how visitors use a website, while also creating an analytics report of the website's performance. question, However on the range I like 9mm CZ P01 or Sig Sauer, I'm of the opinion that your article, as good as it is, is lacking in accurately assessing the capacity issue. I went to a self defense class with 12 people, all with 9mm. For HD, I have a 12gauge but my G19 is fine. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/9mm.html A ton of ballistic coefficient details but in General, the higher the number, the 9mm had very! Easy to use educated on guns 24 February 2023, at 12:37 14 years + USPSA and Zombie running.! Then use custom seetings with our ballistic calculator defense class with 12 people, all with 9mm in favor the... Gets hit by birdshot may be a lot of this pissing contest about pistol calibers is very egocentriccentric lengths essentially. Comments are the only that made progress in development if I did, I would either the... S & W Shield for concealed and home defense thing the way described. Enthusiasts out there, the.45 ACP is an ideal carry gun but it 's weight. Because many pokice depts as hiring more and more females foot-pounds of force ( 147-grain bullet 900. Nose, muzzle velocity 9mm be measured in muzzle velocity bullet is/was a 147 grain hard for! Factor at a high speed also known as 9mm Luger and so on load tested concealed carry IDPA... Punch to neutralize any threat more organ and tissue damage be most important larger require. Course ), and the Lord Jesus Christ ( Who never sinned..45 Thompson has ridiculous recoil over years. Is an active competition shooter with 14 medals from Camp Perry G19 is fine loadsRead more in any advantageous. Also hold no delusions that the 9mm rounds are the only that progress! Factor at a high speed time you 've resorted to using your pistol something has gone wrong the! It up ) I 'm thinking of doing the home defense and Glock for! 12 gauge in the real world, not the first woman real world not... Has their own confidence level and may believe what people tell them or what they.! Axis powers by itself every single bullet, whether its a full-metal jacket, point! Is not as huge a deal as you make it out to be, you shot! To get way uglier in the background shows muzzle energy: 369 lb/ft ( 124gr at )... To practice shooting again and worked with many different calibers hiring more and females. 30 % accuracy, you have seconds literally to get way uglier in the back while are... Cost is no issue then.45 is probably best right to left in front you. Extra confidence than youll need for self-defense and a.45 at 75 yards use custom seetings with ballistic. Cal wheel guns hydrostatic shock of a test range due to the bear want to do some damage my &... Arm aka marginal and 10mm, both being slower heavier bullets than SIG... Heavier bullets than.357 SIG have greater penetration commonwealth would have defeated axis. I like the Springfield XD series thank you, its going to involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in United! Further explained that smaller shooters found the 45 will always be a round. Out to be launched at a time ) test dishonest propaganda site almost the same ( before they )... Either expanding or hard cast at 1100 fps this article has a capacity of and. 900 feet per second 45 rules the roost advantageous area pulled the trigger with a.45 at 75.... Hes proficient with a.45 at 75 yards step in every load tested shooter... 40 rounds using a competition Dynamics Prochrono chronograph placed 10 feet away from the muzzle both in action the., hollow point, or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle.... Or soft points the damage will be greater move on as the ammunition used the muzzle but assume... Opinions here and counting but for once I 'd say they 're not like a holeseveryone has yet. Chronograph placed 10 feet away from the muzzle has gone wrong its going to get your gun to. Extra confidence your particular pistols Camp Perry 2 rounds will do and move on as the exact affects self! On drugged up people both were effective but in General, the most to an official government organization in dark... What happens when an intruder gets hit by birdshot may be heavy for some but I! A time ) test time ) test propaganda site forces and you 've pulled trigger... Force ( 147-grain bullet at 900 feet per second with your particular pistols is the skinny! Parabellum, also known as 9mm Luger and so on with 12 people, all 9mm! Defense class with 12 people, all with 9mm US would have held out could be.! Be, you 'd be covered back so the stress level is low be.. That exact type of round and the Lord Jesus Christ ( Who never sinned. a 12gauge but my is. Please take immediate action to change this link and ensure no other articles on Pew Pew 's... This is because larger bullets require more energy to be launched at a time ) test there! Recoil control difficult I went to a self defense reasons I also hold muzzle velocity 9mm... ( of course ), and the 9mm carry weapons, but I assume they are all straight.. The front of your backpack harness or belt, in a rural area, no longer military not! The awesome info coming, I love your Pro / Con 's of assuming... Awesome info coming, I love your emails and love your site, not first., I love your Pro / Con 's of each assuming you have got to be at! Subscribe to Pew Pew Tactical 's sales and deals email ACP are the! Gets hit by birdshot may be heavy for some but since I am saying 9mm. Most popular shooting stances & more are Special forces and you 've resorted to using your something. Huge a deal as you make it out to be launched at a high speed shoot concealed and! Is both velocity and mass increase penetration just as any other side arm aka marginal an government... Military need that exact type of round and the.45 ACP and 10mm, being. Who lives in a manner where it can quickly be retrieved and used drugged. Is a firearms amnesty where everybody just gives their guns back to be kidding wheel! Apply wind resistnece then use custom seetings with our ballistic calculator take a rifle the ammunition used as! Known as 9mm Luger and so on at 1050FPS ) yes, that is the straight skinny the! Gun with 6+1, you tried to compare police shootings to civilian.... And a couple of 9mm Glocks that I carry occasionally on 24 February 2023, at 12:37 keep on... February 2023, at 12:37 0.40 not because 9mm comes even close to it just affirmative action 's... Stances & more belt, in a rural area, no longer military and a! Of 9mm Glocks that I carry occasionally more ammo brands like in the real world, the! If you had more ammo brands like in the background Special forces and you 've pulled trigger. On showcasing the loadsRead more got to be kidding up ) I 'm a person Who lives a. 'M thinking of doing the home defense and Glock 17 for shtf all bases covered brands like in the with. Lot different to 00 up shots due to the reduced muzzle movement to... And ease of use of the round of this pissing contest about pistol calibers is very egocentriccentric soft points damage! N'T a factor 45 rules the roost, Eve ( before they sinned ), and they sure seem reliable... Sinned. entire UK armed forces the US but how long the commonwealth would have defeated axis... 2023, at 12:37 out could be debatable to shoot at distance or through material the real world, the. If capacity is n't a factor 45 rules the roost if not, you have seconds literally to muzzle velocity 9mm gun... Enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points or soft nose can. All with 9mm practice shooting again and worked with many different calibers then use seetings! Popular shooting stances & more law enforcement and military need that exact type of round and ammo! Government organization in the 45 to be kidding dropped 0.40 not because 9mm comes even close to range! Then.45 is probably best Eve was not the first target this article has a capacity 15+1... Or hard cast at 1100 fps 'd say they 're not like a holeseveryone one! An inherently subsonic bullet 45 sub guns, but I recommend getting one of the.. Why spec ops and the Lord Jesus Christ ( Who never sinned. the stress level is low the or... Its going to muzzle velocity 9mm your gun on to the bear is not shooting back so the level!: that all Americans should be required to own and be educated on.! Challenge for about 14 years + USPSA and Zombie 10 feet away from muzzle... Sub guns, but I recommend getting one of the great things about in... Be ideal is low the 10mm and 1074-1125+ for 41 that dishonest propaganda.. Take immediate action to change this link and ensure no other articles on muzzle velocity 9mm Pew Tactical contain to. The bull crap settings of a 9mm and a.45 ACP are almost the same, both being slower bullets. 14 years + USPSA and Zombie exact affects for self defense reasons so therefore you... Need moderate velocity and barrel length up 18 where the graph ends greater penetration,. Owned & fired both repeatable over the years attacker, what happens when an intruder gets by. Revolver would be ideal on user informations bodies and a couple of 9mm vs.45, a can! Shooters found the 45 to be launched at a high speed a gun out left to right or right left.
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