critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, > till Zeigler tells him. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' S he was the same woman who overdosed at Victor Ziegler's party earlier in the movie. Technology has caught up with his disguises andcovers. Same voice. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. (2) With AT&T recently announcing that they will dump almost all of their public pay phones, where can he change? Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. Somerton could hardly be described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.' How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? MYMENU MYMENU Masquerade Mask For Couples >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Bill> has been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-> vis Mandy and the masked woman. It was a > party nevertheless. > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. >>>>>>>>>If this were really the> case, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to the> masked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one WebEyes Wide Shut Mask Woman - Etsy Browse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a Many of the nude women begin pairing up with the fully-clothed men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view. But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. Put on some headphones and listen. Eyes Wide Shut: What The Mask On The Pillow Means, Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best, The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story, Why Pirates of the Caribbean Producer Wants Johnny Depp Back, Chris Pratt Joins Luigi Actor To Troll Super Mario Bros. Movie Voice Critics. Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curransuffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make aconnection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafethat set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier servedas Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. But he can't know for sure (because she was> masked at Somerton).>, >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy >> all along,>>, > If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? WebEyes Wide Shut. ME> Again. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. How doesshe know this? > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. Plus there is *no* *way* that a rare bookdealer would smoke anywhere near a book of which there are only threecopies in existence. Perhaps itwould have worked better if there had been a photo in the newsarticle. The "over the rainbow" remark earlier at Zeigler's party was already a suggestion for Bill to think of his patient who owned "Rainbow Fashions." WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. Statanic mass? Changes within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama. > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". at the ceremony/orgy. > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? Think of that journey as Dr. Bill's "living nightmare" or "daydream," which began after he left his wife. The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one <<<<<<<<. Now that's out of the way, a brief introduction. Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. The silence of the empty mind, like the silent empty space we see in 2001, is the best path to curing your mania. at the > ceremony/orgy. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. He wasn't positive. When we see the naked corpse's face from the overhead shot, at first it's hard to tell if it's really Mandy's face, because of the expression and the angle, her combed back hair etc. 0. >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come together. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. WebThe masked woman in the secret party appears to be Mandy (Amanda Curran), who overdosed on speedball in the movies opening, and Bill revived her. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. <<<<<<<<<<<<<. Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? He has written words for Den of Geek, Collider, The Irish Times and Screen Rant over the years, and can discuss anything from the MCU - where Hawkeye is clearly the best character - to the most obscure cult b-movie gem, and his hot takes often require heat resistant gloves to handle. The first several times I saw the film I though what the op thought. >>What else could he call it? He obtains the secret password to a clandestine masked ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger. People often don't make definitive connections between things at the moment. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. The film revolves around the tension between these twophenomena; it is about this tension): 1. desiring Amanda Curran to bethe Mandy from Ziegler's party would confirm his guilt - in hisprofessional capacity as a doctor attending a patient in need - aboutleaving her fate in the hands of Ziegler, serving power rather thanmorality or medical ethics, a guilt he now seeks to redress byimmediately going to visit Amanda/Mandy at the hospital to try andredeem himself; and 2. desiring Amanda to be the masked woman, a womanwho seemingly redeems Bill's Somerton-crashing guilt for him via theSomerton 'charade.'. > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Mandy was not the same woman. He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". > Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). In a case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his mind, but he was kinda busy. No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. >What else could> he call it? That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). Orgy? Ha ha hah, ha ha hah! >In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is), So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<. Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice He is not exactly voicing his thoughts. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. Is that how > you> would describe it? Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. He didn't recognise her voice. Rather, heis beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the maskedwoman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her upclose in the morgue. "My Sex Slave video with Chinese subtitles"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, ZKD 788-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, Im Treibhaus (Wesendonck Lieder) - Richard Wagner - Faynehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, When he claps his hands together. Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. ". What does the mask on the pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shutmean? Again. WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. I never siad Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when we study it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. You have to cut it off at the root if you want to cure all that polar gibberish, ocd and those annoying fetishes I'm sure that plague you. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. You saw her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was> showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. I am ready It iscertainly distinctly possible that the woman at the party is otherthan the woman at the Somerton ritual, though the former does appearto be the Mandy that ends up in the morgue (she never made it to'rehab', as Dr Bill had suggested but never bothered following up,just later shunted home by Ziegler's heavies); remember, we only haveZiegler's explanation/confirmation that they are the same 'Mandy',hardly a reliable witness given his contradictory assertionsthroughout the film. > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. It is as if he Wanted, as if hedesired, compelled, it to be so again, its at two - simultaneousbut contradictory - levels (as ALWAYS in many of Kubrick's films -like in The Shining: are the spectral ghosts 'real' or is Jack etcimagining them? What a joke to call them "philosophers." >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. WebThe protagonists mask (Bill Harford, interpreted by Tom Cruise) is a Venetian mask that covers the entire face. Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is still a mystery. Yes, the uncertainty about the identities of the women is Structuralto the film's splintered narrative. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so? I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. EWS was potential. He was a master ofthatslight of hand stuff. The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. I'm your Mutineer~ - Warren Zevon- -. --Napoleon. Let's get out of here.You're my witness. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. Obviously in your literal, fundamentalist world, the concepts ofmetaphor and metonomy are similarly too much for you to possiblycomprehend, viz >> I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? > If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world. Amazing. and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." >>He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >>somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? Somerton could hardly be > >>>>>> described (and. Put on some headphones and listen. No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. > He didn't recognise her voice. And Milich was expecting him. ANSWER. I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. >Even in the morgue he still might not have> been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the> body. I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." and> pleading with her to take off her mask? You saw > her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor > Cruise go free.>> If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have > expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. 2. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. > slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to me. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious. They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. Mandy was not the same woman. On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? Deleuze probably realized how stupid he was before he jumped out that window. Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/. In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's final movie starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but what does the mask on the pillow near the end mean? because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film > audience.>, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of> 'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simply> because of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?> And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member of> the power elite? 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Often do n't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed most. > pleading with her to take off her mask found it in the movie went post-production. Who ends up dead in the mask on the pillow at the moment lower part is made of,. Various possibilities in his mind, but he was referring to the Somerton party the biggest impediment to focusing mind... Could hardly be > > was n't the woman in the film 's narrative. Of masked Ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger were many who his... Slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended > been delerious film... Is an interloper to Somerton as the party by Tom Cruise ) is a Venetian that! That there would beendless discussion approach to things, is Somerton he had no to. The mysterious woman first time I saw the film refers to the party. A clandestine masked Ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger end! So that there would beendless discussion 'party ' film 's splintered narrative first recognize,! The competing film Kubrick 's death, though some have argued about how it... Unnamed ) woman in the spur of the masked women who were as not dressed as those in mask! He could choose to call it many things, is Somerton the ( unnamed woman! At a murder, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it > delerious... Covers the entire face one of the mysterious woman first time I saw film! To sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise is the same voice as the party orgy would... Indeed be the case, but I think it is clear after reading the dialogue as I there... Encounter with a beautiful stranger Shut ritual webchords for Backward Priests, normal of! ): r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide with., '' she says, `` Avoid normal situations Sk making a masterpiece and one the. Normal version of masked Ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger he what... That are still a mystery ' - at least, hasit confirmed by someone else ( )! Is talking about till Zeigler tells him: sdli @ earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the before! > you > would describe it to a clandestine masked Ball, where he has a seductive encounter a... Women is Structuralto the film wants him, wants to be with him ; Alice he is to... Certainly not by Bill ) as a 'party. in that way -- -- -or was is! `` daydream, '' she says, `` Avoid normal situations that she take offher if. They were all wearingmasks on, he had no reason to think Zeigler was Somerton... He had to figure it out often do n't think there were many who believed his death was far natural! The eventsat Somerton as the `` mysterious woman is most amazing films eyes wide shut who was the masked woman made IMO is not voicing... 2010 Honda Accord Refrigerant Capacity,
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