It's literally in his DNA, as his father Jerry is the co-author of the popular LeftBehind series of religious novels. BTW, I am 99.99% sure that my 86-year-old mother can be trusted. Driscoll was stopped Hybels was stopped MacDonald was stopped. A defender of the weak and a rescuer of the perishing or a celebrity who gets to choose the image he parents to the world? If anything, out of all the ashes has come a humbling of my spirit. The Evangelical Bubble proclaimed it a Witnessing Tool (as if that was the only reason for anything) and then bought out so many showings a lot of the theaters had to discontinue group tickets. You have been on the pulse, on target, and on the money with each and every post I have read on Twitter and now on TWW. This is not a widely understood concept, nor do many consider it at all. TS00: because sometimes I feel pretty alone in this wilderness. Thats a rare bird, indeed, in the American church. I prayed for your father-in-law and your family just now. 4107 N Steele Blvd, Fayetteville, AR, 72703, United States. At Harvest Kids, we love teaching Gods Word. How does he know that? HCA's highest purpose is to develop students who are grounded in God's Word. His men are perplexed, but only at the very end does he realize his foolishness, crying, My God, what have I done? before aiming his dying body at the detonator to blow up his glorious creation. Church history is full of documentation on Mark Driscolls misbehavings, but that bad-boy legacy didnt stop him from launching his current ministry in Arizona. Take the worst despots history records all Satan has to do is convince them of their right and ability to save the world and rid it of its pestilences (unfortunately these are usually men). Churches that are run like cults do not encourage true friendships. Churchgoers in 21st century America are just too gullible to keep these folks out of the pulpit. Be wary of falling into the trappings you so boldly wish expose. Noevangelical, Or rather, a simulacrum of an ancient city. You have also put a few of the people fighting for the cause of God change through the ringer with some of your comments to them on twitter fb. Dallas, maybe you should read the red letter Bible the T. Jefferson compiled from the King James Version? He is currently Director of Media at Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, where he directed the award-winning short film "The Ride" and is currently developing multiple feature films. They truly have no idea. I am watching the SBC be accused of following in the footsteps of the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church. i understand the losses you describe, and experience them, too. MacDonald may join him next year on the Stronger Men circuit. No more tithe. So this ole guy is here until the Lord moves me along or my comments stop making sense (please tell me if they do). When my friends are all gone. They are set in place as the shepherds of Gods people, and thus are the care takers of the spiritual needs of the church. Run away from any self-conceived leader who does not strive to live this way. FOR DALLAS JENKINS, telling stories comes naturally. I do sometimes wonder if we read the same Bible. The way back: 2 Chronicles 7:14 but I dont see much movement in that direction. The teenage years are an awesome time to grow in Christ. With their leadership training, it appears that men like Hybels and MacDonald groom charismatic potential leaders in how to control and manipulate naive, trusting believers for their own personal, or the institutions, gain. He added the promise of millions of dollars in renos and expansions, via the Closer Campaign, in order to sweeten the pot. So, as you imply, in their heart of hearts they dont really give a big hoot about reading the precious words in red, let alone the rest of Scripture. More and more, I am willing to settle for walking with God, and being thankful for a community of people I may never meet in this life, but who support and encourage one another in the manner God called his people to do. Jimmy Evans, Head of Marriage Today TV & Sr Pastor and Apostle of Gateway Church, is reportedly in contact with James MacDonald. You could be the pope for all I know. And for keeping ones mouth shut on the way out? The Story of Alleged Abuse at Sankey Orphanage in the Philippines and Its Relationship to Christ Community Chapel, Tom Randall, and Joe Coffey, Former Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonaldFired, https://swbts.edu/news/releases/game-banquet-uses-hunting-venue-spread-gospel/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSTe9uit48, http://churchbuildingministry.org/who-we-are/, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web, http://www.wsop.com/players/profile/?playerid=72494, http://www.globalpokerindex.com/poker-players/frederick-adams-169223/, https://classroom.synonym.com/the-role-of-the-clergy-in-the-greek-orthodox-church-12087637.html, https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. First Church Plant - Harvest Bible Fellowship This cancer is about to metastasize across the U.S. and ALL of the dirt needs to be made public for the safety and spiritual well-being of the masses. You are wrong on that point.The NT writers do make the point that there should be payment and encourage readers to do so. Pastor James MacDonald, the founder Harvest Bible Chapel, a megachurch located in the surrounding Chicago area, has been fired as a leader of the church. In any normal group setting, the members will naturally turn to the most mature and experienced among them for direction and advice. , I would disagree. so, for sensible folks (like you and me) who actually remember the simple meaning of the gospel (the bridge built between us and God so we can know each other in real time, every day), it is only logical to assume Paul is no more unique than all the others who are part of the enormous harvest mentioned in the NT. The fact that its not supported by a single word of evidence is strong evidence that whats being said is entirely true. The apostles counted that an honor. Its sad to have lived to such a ripe old age to witness a generation that doesnt respect their elders as they ought. How you understand the word? AND PREACHER-MAN INFLICTED THAT ON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS? General Groupthink consensus did the job very well by itself. Please think about all the others who will fall under these cultic practices if these perpetrators and their deeds are not brought into the open. And check your privilege while youre at it. Wow. Then I read actual instructions on the veneration of Elders as of Christ himself. Pre-1970 power (denominational competition for theological control of the Body of Christ), Post-1970 money (mega-madness begins, 6-figure salaries, limelight, mansions, jets). Of course it does require set up of chairs, nursery area, etc., and the take down every week and people who are committed to doing that. It is also pure, and I would say faulty, assumption to state that the main issue is that the flock will quickly go astray. not self-willed IMO, most people attend church to replace the lost family and community modern society has sacrificed. Harvest Bible Church is a non-denominational, non-charismatic, evangelical Protestant church located in Northwest Houston in the Cypress community. I am beginning to feel like at best it is simply not what Jesus intended for us, as it allows to much anonymity, where the church should be a community And at worst it is laced with risks for massive abuse and corruption. We have partnered with Grace Theological Seminary and Chicago Partnership to move onward in equipping leaders to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I havent read the comments, and Im just going to say that seeing a dead bear there with James McDonald behind it made me sick. Never! i agree, Paul has worthy things to say that are beneficial. Lets keep in mind that the XLT members were all making 6 figures and had very generous T&E accounts and were living the life of rockstars prior to this implosion. Also, your letter simply further bolsters credibility of the excellent work from the Elephants Debt and Julie Roys. This could be real or fabricated, such as recordings of people, say, playing the Name Game, or threats of kicking their kids out, planting child porn on their devices or otherwise destroying their reputations. Being a first-world country has its pitfalls on several fronts not least of which is being able to find a real-deal Church of the Living God. Sandy: In the history of the church, which is most seductive: money, sex, or power? Trust in Jesus and his completed work is what makes one a child of God. The Gospel in what it means has become the most ridiculous word, exploited, twisted, distorted, co-opted by ridiculous christians. I tracked down the World Magazine article on Jerry Jenkins gambling from which I had gleaned what little info I had and saw that it mentioned that Dallas also participated in online poker, and that another son was a dealer at a real live casino. From all the people I know in those churches, I think thats exactly what happens! Im amazed to find Im not alone on this. The imprisoned Colonel, intelligent, patriotic, disciplined and well-meaning, oversees the building of a bridge far superior to anything his captors could have dreamed of. I call it B.S. After seven years, the growing congregation of 500 raised funds in six weeks to secure a former warehouse at 800 S Rohlwing Road in Rolling Meadows. It is designed to provide a worship experience for people in remote communities or for those who otherwise cannot join us live for the service. Harvest Christian Academy currently has more than 500 students, more than 60 staff members, and continues to move forward with a high leadership focus. i have an observation: i know many people who dont subscribe to christianity, yet are the most excellent human beings. This all happens when we gather, grow and go together as followers of Jesus. Harvest Christian Fellowship is a megachurch in Riverside, California. He was also involved with setting up secret retirement accounts and encouraging outrageous T&E expenditures as a way of making himself invaluable to James. That included giving James $20K-$30K a MONTH to spend just on T&E. If even one little thing God has brought me through can help someone else, I am exceeding glad. We all know who is trustworthy, mature and wise to go to for advice or counsel. We see it mentioned on a few occasions in Scripture where elders were appointed in every city. Dallas Jenkins: Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. And just because there is a list of qualifications doesnt mean that men wont lie to gain access, or construct a pseudo religion to hide in. Maybe you should have considered the consequences of your actions, or inaction, before you decided to hitch your wagon to JM. Whether its a yes-man or someone the lead guy has dirt on, its easy enough for these types to have a handful in pocket. elastigirl: why does it matter what Max thinks, I took your text out of context a bit, so forgive me. theyve gone through none of the typical christian procedures. Too many are like big box stores that shutter all of (the little churches on) Main Street, and then close their own doors forever. That would have been ample to time to realize what they had got themselves into, to determine who MacDonald really was, and become aware of the hypocritical mission of HBC and its leaders. Abigail: Why would anyone want to kill a magnificent creature like that? In fact, Driscolls board is down to him as President and director, Jimmy Evans and Randall Taylor (who I believe is an attorney). The Bible says that one of the top competitors for our commitment to Jesus is money (Matthew 6:4). something in the Chicago water, perhaps. I doubt that the facts will stop MacDonald from making an unrepentant comeback. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Is it not All of the above and then some? Ive stepped inside a church once in the last three years; we were out of town visiting friends, and they invited us, and my wife looked at me like Please, honey, just this one time, lets not make a scene. So I went along and it felt something like being in the car, trying to teach my teenager how to drivewhite knuckles. If they couldnt get it right after three years of intensive time with Jesus, what chance do we have? You need to stop looking at yourself as a victim and a good guy and admit that you are the neo-Pharisee that you really are. Both HBC and WBC had a plurality of Yes-Men Courtiers around a Pastor/Dictator O COME LET US ADORE HIM!. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. Ive had 58 years to observe her fruit, and, while not perfect, she has proven generally consistent and trustworthy. I guess I mean that a person, on his or her own, cant do it without God working it out in that person. I wonder whether it might not be better to simply abandon the entire property-owning paradigm and return to the original practice of meeting in public places (for large groups) and in homes (for small groups). Sadly, I have yet to see even one of these elders or executive staff members repent in a productive, redemptive manner. of good testimony with those who are outside (non-Christian) To the American church which is playing games with the gospel in both pulpit and pew the Apostle John still shouts Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues (Revelation 18:4). Amy Moore. Membership Covenants Good words, Fisher. The official anniversary date was September 18, 2018. The true Body of Christ answers only to Christ, the shepherds/elders as well. None of the Synoptic gospels have that same setup. It is long past time Jenkins spoke up. apostle-schmapostle. Wow. In reality, it lost about $29,000. I was a strong donor who loved the church and served in multiple areasI was in a good place spirituallybut I didnt meet the qualifications. A group began meeting and praying together in 2011. Or would they even care? Fred not only took out debt to fund new purchases, he took out additional debt on already encumbered buildings. One can only guess at the motive behind their inaction, but even with the most basic discernment skills one could easily surmise that the money train was at the heart. http://www.globalpokerindex.com/poker-players/frederick-adams-169223/. We all know who to go to who can explain the meaning of a passage with more insight than anyone else. Thanks and God bless to all the TWW regulars! You are loved!. So yeah, theres really NOBODY looking over Driscolls shoulder, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely (Lord Acton). In every church I was part of the pastor put forth a list of men to choose from, and the pastor was appointed from outside the church. Then, I started laughing! The potty-mouth preacher from Seattle is still a big draw for macho-men-wannabes and hes found a new audience within Assembly of God ranks. This is accomplished mainly through having only a few puppet elders who are as dirty as the head pastor, hence, the 3 out of state elders Driscoll chose. By the end of the first century there are already offices of bishop, priest, and deacon. I can understand your desire not to become a public figure. Here are some fun and easy strategies to make the most of every moment of your Bible study. Covidfrom the start of the pandemic and lockdowns, the Worship and Creative Teams busied themselves with recordings, writing coronavirus updates, and developing worship environments that would be both accessible and God-honoring in the height of the pandemic. We are Harvest a vertical church in two locations in West Michigan (Spring Lake. But one way or the other, my instincts about Hall dont alter my opinion that Dee likely has good reasons to not want to use this forum to air a familys personal tragedy any more. James MacDonald was one the most well known mega church pastors in the U.S. until he was fired from Harvest Bible Chapel, the church he founded and pastored . There has been financial fraud committed by Harvest and its leaders. You sound like an attorney who just sent me a letter stating that I posted false statements by a victim. PJ, with the loss of religious heritage a forgone conclusion, I suspect they will next be raping our children of their identities, if they havent already. HBC Youth Bible Study. The Riverside-based Harvest Christian Fellowship will be joining the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant body that has about 15 million members.The Rev. Wasnt it Groucho Marx who once quipped, I would never join an organization who would have me as a member? In church context, it may even be worse than the secular business context because in addition to the objective institutional power wielded by the narcissist CEO, there is the presumption of divine authority which legitimates the misuse of power. That meant that he used smoke and mirrors to make MacDonald and his minions appear not to be incredibly stupid, unbiblical and mean. Whew! Maybe out of kindness because he didnt want to embarrass anyone too much? In reality, if the undeniable evidence leads to the sad realization that our most beloved parent, spouse, child or pastor is not who we have believed them to be, we must be willing to deal with the facts. We have millions of church folks in America who say they would die to protect the Bible, but not many actually read it! It just means there was (and is) nothing in that church resembling a true church. I personally doubt that MacDonald was ever sincere, but it is likely that many of his deceived henchmen were. Leaders raging, even with kids; no one doing anything but continuing to pay. Only if this does not work are you to turn him away as a unbeliever. Thats too deep to answer. If I understand your former function at Harvest (based on what you said in your letter) your job involved presenting and tightly controlling the Harvest narrative through media. Also want to acknowledge it took courage to write that letter knowing your children might be kicked out of school. Well played. Those types rarely think of anyone but themselves. Feb 14, 2022 . The 7 elders below were given an opportunity to step down and avoid this lawsuit. So when I see the original Church held out for a few generations, I think Wow, amazing foundation!. and when he first committed to downsizing, I told him not to do it, that he didnt need to.. Didnt Paul rejoice from prison that the gospel was preached, whether from false motives or true? So at least in theory there are checks and balances. Or allowed to keep anything hidden from those who are part of the community? But adding the concept of God to the mix , *God is inhabiting the warm water, so im mystically being helped by it and on my way to becoming a Superhero for God. Leila: he will be partnering with a music minister from another local church and they are starting a church service in a bar on Sunday evenings. Lowlandseer: I do sometimes wonder if we read the same Bible. https://theelephantsdebt.com/2017/06/19/headed-to-the-big-house-for-the-sake-of-jesus/. ], anyway, its helpful to verbalize & hopefully dialogue). In an interview with the Chicago Sun Times, Jenkins said, "We feel like if people can binge watch . information from others can be beneficial. HBC leaders will have to give an account before God for these things. Is anonymous code for little people or pew peons? Anyway, this small bit of a sermon doesnt appear to provide much foundational backup for all the rest of the filler in the Bible that supports mega-churches of any denomination. words like unsaved, which always has the connotation of someone to be wary of. This resource is better: https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. Its like dj vu all over again. -Yogi Berra. Now, four of Harvest Bible Chapels campuses have Hope Centers to provide food and other resources to families in across Chicagoland to provide help and hope found only in Jesus. Give them what they want in the present, and they wont care about the past. So join the club. . I bring up Eastern Orthodoxy because its dogma and practices are very old. Kind of clueless about it, obviously, because you act like think youre making a trenchant point. Thats a smoking crater of a response. Watch Video. But please, enough with the Evil Baddy-Bad-Bad Constantine Nonsense. Most of those Ive heard and experienced who tout elder-rule polity will say that this passage says anything but pew peons having any say in elder or pastor selection and/or accountability. Having read the explanations of some of the associates and enablers who have pulled away from HBC, this does seem to have been part of why they put up with the wrongness coming from the top. So instead of trying to defend these rascals, I prefer to inform and warn the church about the wolves in their midst rather than giving them a break. Who knows? Jeff Chalmers I remember it vividly because our child was very, very deeply disturbed and upset, AS WAS I. I had not ever seen the movie, nor intended to ever see it. It really doesnt take long for traditions to get set in stone, as it were. Sovereign Grace Ministries Samuel Conner: wonder whether part of the problem lies in the theological DNA of the Western-derived traditions. Its not like a plurality of elders guarantees anything, or multiple pastors is anything special. Rich: I just know that if one of the callers in my English Country Dance or Contra Dance communities was screaming at people or even talking in a consistently rude way, that would not stand for a day, let alone years. Usually being replaced by a building program or a new strategic plan or a new school blah blah blah. Does that make you manly? Sad. A pastor or shepherd is one who devotes themselves to the care of the flock which is placed under his control. Agreed; I cant imagine that Paul would be pleased with what is happening. Ill be blunt, your post is silly. Oh, I probably am too self-righteous or self-centered or something. I dont have a huge problem with the idea of multiple leaders who put their necks on the line like the people in the early church serving others, and because theyre typically older and recognized as more kind and stable and servant-like, people are told to consider seriously what they have to say (about the best translation of the word unfortunately translated obey in HEB 13:17. He promised never to leave me, Give them what they want in the present, and they wont care about the past. Today, CBS Chicago featured Former Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonald Fired Their strong Christian beliefs led Scott and Marsha Thompson to volunteer at Harvest Bible Chapel, and donate more than $72,000 over the course of several years. You should repent and make reparations where necessary. I believe that if I hadnt been a strong donor, I would not have been considered and wouldnt have vaulted through Harvest leadership over more deserving peers. Its a good letter Dallas but would have been so much more impactful 2 months ago or even 1 month ago. Jenkins: Yeah, I did the original Christmas short solely as something for my church's Christmas Eve service [said church being Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago]. , Info on the photo is apparently wrong. I have a feeling even if we thought there was, theres stuff going on we cant see. How arrogant is that Dallas. Theres a difference between people who hunt professionally for a living, indigenous hunters who hunt as part of their tribal culture, and rich guys like James McDonald who do it to knock another item off their bucket list. I know some people will disagree with me, but thats just my opinion. Whats chilling is you can still see the cult hold harvest has on him and others as he desribes his felling in the beginning of the letter. William J. Stewart. The days of intermediaries are over, and we all have access to the very Spirit of God to lead us personally as he desires us to go.
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